A First Whoo-hoo For Sufjan

Sufjan Stevens is sitting beside the Canal Saint-Martin when I arrive in front of the Point Ephemere venue. I’m impatient and scared at the idea of meeting the man behind the formidable Illinois, which stole my heart when it fell from the sky last June. In person he is exactly as you would imagine from listening to his records: self-possessed, intelligent, and in a class of his own. We talk about his past work, his future projects, Woody Allen and books, just before his first concert in France, an event marked by a white rock. Thank you to Nicholas at PIAS and to Cargo.

Let’s talk about your most recent album, Come On Feel The Illinoise. It’s musically very dense, coming in at 74 minutes; Seven Swans only came out just over a year ago. Why have you put another record out so quickly?

Sufjan: Ah, well…I guess I have a lot of ideas. I was inspired by everything I read about Illinois. I think I go through phases. At the moment, I’m going through a very prolific period, and I’m making the most of it; I almost feel like I have a duty to write and record as much as possible.

Lots of people took part in the recording of the album: the Illinoisemakers, a string quartet, etc. Did they take part in the writing of the songs or did you do it all yourself?

Sufjan: I spent most of the time writing as I went along. In fact, I tended to want to direct and control all the arrangements. The musicians came to play and I would write all their parts for them. I also wanted to supervise the recording of the drums, and to work on the sound of the toms with the drummer.

You’re obviously very happy with the drum sounds!

Sufjan: Yes, I think they sound really good! That was the first album I didn’t play the drums myself, it was quite exciting…but yes, I spent most of the time writing the arrangements.

And all the string parts?

Sufjan: Yes, I wrote them all. For those parts, the recording sessions only lasted two hours. Luckily the musicians who played were very talented, and they picked it up very quickly and followed my instructions to the letter. It was quite easy to explain to them what I really wanted.

When I listened to Illinois for the first time, it made me think that Illinois would be a great place to live. The album is very joyful, ecstatic. It seems to me that you have lived there for a while. I wonder if the joyfulness of the album is related to fond memories you have of your stay in Illinois, or if it simply reflects the state as it was this year, when you wrote the songs.

Sufjan: I’ve never lived there! (smiles) I think a lot of the enthusiasm in the music comes specifically from my experience of Chicago and my perception of the state itself from the outside. Most of the songs are about the development of industry, heroic people like Superman or Carl Sandbur, who are local icons…and Chicago, a radiant and vibrant city. All these things contributed to the spirit of celebration on the album.

You say you have documented a lot of yourself in Illinois. When I read the tracklist, I get the impression that the album is structured like a book, with chapters, interludes, etc. I also read that you intend to write a novel. Where are you? [I take this to mean: at what stage are you? PB]

Sufjan: My first love is writing. It’s the reason why I came to New York, to study literature. At the time, music was just a hobby, but it became a sort of distraction. I guess this today I use a lot of literary techniques when I’m writing my songs. I use fictional elements in creating characters that I combine in order to create dramatic tension. The songs themselves are, I think, very descriptive, and rich in sensory details. So yes, I do think Illionis is like a novel in certain ways. But the album is still, above all, a collection of pop songs.

It’s often hard to know whether you are talking about what you personally feel, or whether you are telling a (fictional) story in the first person. For example, on John Wayne Gacy, Jnr, you even compare yourself to the serial killer. Are you afraid you might tire of this stylistic device over the course of the 50 States Project?

Sufjan: No, not at all. It depends on how you see these things. I don’t force myself to be relevant or precise about the culture of the state I’m writing about. I just think that this project gives me an excellent emotional context. It’s hard to speculate about the future, but at least I can talk about the two albums I’ve already made. The first, Michigan, talked about the state in which I was born; the songs talked about personal experiences, memories. I idealized my life to some extent, which gave me the raw material for Michigan. For Illinois it’s different because I’ve never lived there. I wanted to…translate things. Perhaps I wanted to communicate my experiences with a state that has a particular spirit. But I think I achieved that. The pieces, ultimately, are more about me than about Illinois. I used the geography and the history as a context for doing that. I think, even, that it’s easier emotionally to write songs about particular events of my life, by modifying the tone: the effect creates distance. In fact, I was more objective on the new album, I had more confidence in myself and in my songs. I could take liberties with the facts…I could use my imagination more. I think it was a good exercise. You see, anyone can write songs that are moving and personal. I’ve already done that, and I always like to do more besides. But this project is built on a very solid framework, which I used as a guide. Because of that I can experiment with the structures of the songs as much as I want.

So it’s a challenge?

Sufjan: Yes, exactly! I think it’s very open, I don’t think the (50 States) concept is at all restrictive.

It’s the first time you’ve played in France, and in most of Europe. Did you worry that Europeans might not understand the nuances of your lyrics?

Sufjan: Yes, I thought that people whose second language was English would really lose something of the meaning. It’s a bit like Woody Allen. You watch the film and certain elements are really funny to everyone because it’s burlesque comedy. The gags are fast, explicit, direct…but there is another level of humour in his films. For example, there are lots of allusions to New York, his birthplace. If you’re from New York yourself, you get a kind of inside knowledge of these jokes. Another example…Woody Allen is Jewish. He mocks a lot of clich?s about being Jewish, etc. So if you’re Jewish, you feel this part of his humour with more acuity. It gets more deeply into social subcultures. If you’re part of that subculture, you can understand subtleties that would escape the attention of those who aren’t. But you don’t have to live in New York or be Jewish to love Woody Allen’s films. I think the same is true for music and for all art forms that have a specific setting. For me, a good song naturally evokes an emotional context that resonates in the spirit of each person (who listens to it). The details, the geography, the references to heroic figures create interesting details, but none of it is really necessary, ultimately. They are incidental. For example, my songs about famous figures are interesting because of the role they represent in real society: they carry a message, they are symbols of hope, etc…I think people can identify with that, even if they don’t understand the precise references.

People tend to think of you as a folk artist. You play the banjo, the guitar, the piano well. You have been pretty experimental, on Enjoy Your Rabbit, for example. Illinois sounds very poppy to me. Are there any other musical styles you want to try?

Sufjan: Yes, I would like to work with classical instruments, and write arrangements for violin. I have a thing about classical composition. I’d also like to do rock’n'roll ? lots of my favourite groups are rock groups. I adore Polvo, for example, and The Ex. And Sonic Youth.

Did you hear their last one, Sonic Nurse?

Sufjan: No, I haven’t heard that one. I love most of all their earliest albums, like Daydream Nation or Sister. I stopped listening to them at the time of Murray Street.

It’s a bit like Murray Street, but with more energy, I reckon. The songs are more melodic and straightforwardly more accessible.

Sufjan: Oh, okay. I really admire those guys, they’ve lasted so long and have done so many interesting things. I would like to make a rock album, but I think I’d first have to find a way of approaching it, of adapting my voice to rockier music…there are so many groups who do that well, too well perhaps, that sort of scorched style. I’d really like to make something that sounds very brutalist.

Brutalist?!

Sufjan: I play a lot of that kind of thing in my spare time. I plug in my guitar, turn the sound right up, and experiment. I fool around in the studio making a lot of noise for a few hours. For me it’s a great experiment to forget about melodies and harmonies and to just focus on energy and aggression.

Your voice is very soft…how do you think it would work with a very noisy sound?

Sufjan: Yes, I know, I think I’ll just have to change the way I sing. Or smoke tons of cigarettes and start drinking whisky for breakfast (laughs).

Good idea. Did you know there is a drum’n'bass version of Illinois currently circulating on the internet?

Sufjan: Oh really? No, I didn’t know that! What does it sound like?

It sounds quite kitsch…apparently, it’s a New York DJ who did it, he had done 12 tracks from the album and remixes. He’s called it ?Illin-noise’!

Sufjan: No, that’s not true, you’re joking! Do you know the address of the site?

No, I’m not kidding. I’ve forgotten the address of the site but you can easily find it on Google.

Sufjan: Excellent, I’ll look for it.

I found out yesterday that one of the friends of Asthmatic Kitty, John Ringhoger, is about to put out an EP as Half-Handed Cloud, What’s The Remedy?, that you collaborated on. He wrote the songs with you two or three years ago. Do you know why it took so long to come out?

Sufjan: There are other albums still waiting to come out. At the beginning, it was supposed to be a split EP with some songs I’d written, but after we’d recorded the songs I thought they were good enough to put out like that.

Do you just played on these songs, you didn’t write them.

Sufjan: Yes. I did the overdubbing and played a few instruments. To start with, we said we’d write five songs that the other would arrange in his own way. It’s really interesting: John generally writes a piece that is one minute long, very short, and very poppy. He is very economical. My songs, they tend to be very long, like my albums. His albums are rarely longer than 30 minutes. I love working with him because we complement each other. He plays the trombone in my group as well, you will see him at the concert this evening.

I’ll be there. About the length of your songs…there are some short interludes on Illinois, all the same. I wanted to ask you: a lot of them sound like improvisations. Is this something you like to do?

Sufjan: It’s true, there are a few short parts that sound totally improvised. Most of them, you can hear the drummer playing quite freely. But on the whole, it was very controlled. As a contrast I like to abandon that rigidity and be more spontaneous and improvise from time to time during concerts. You will see, there will be moments when anything goes…

I have one last question. I’m sorry if it’s a bit crap. Do you like The Cure?

Sufjan: Yes, I love The Cure!

I suppose you know what’s coming then. There is a very short moment in the title track of Come On! Feel The Illinoise! which reminds me of Close To Me. Is it a homage?

Sufjan: Yes, it was intentional. It didn’t start out sounding so much like The Cure, but at the end I was struck by the resemblance, so I decided to accentuate it, to make it more explicit.

Thank you and good luck with your European tour!

[Translated from French by Predatory Birdwasp]